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MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
To test the advantages of gas versus electric propulsion, the MythBusters tear apart a perfectly good gasoline-powered go-kart and transform it into a tire-smoking machine that's fast—and clean. Check out behind-the-scenes action and test results, then learn more about the electric advantage from Jamie Hyneman.
The challenge: Convert a gas go-kart to electric to find out if the quieter, cleaner—and heavier—electric version can outgun its internal-combustion counterpart. Here, Jamie Hyneman (right) attaches the sprocket to the 25-hp brushed DC motor while Adam Savage installs a throttle potentiometer.
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• JAMIE HYNEMAN: Why Electric Vehicles Beat Gas in 5 Extreme Tests
On our show, we like extreme tech. And, as far as we're concerned, racing go-karts at 90 mph with your butt half an inch off the ground certainly qualifies as extreme. With scary acceleration and speed, high-performance karts are as exhilarating as it gets in racing circles. But these track-only rides use two-stroke engines, which are notoriously dirty—one kart can spew as many pollutants as 100 cars.
We care about the environment and want to do our part, but still have a little fun. So we wondered: Could we create an electric kart that would outperform its noisy, gas-powered twin—and be just as thrilling?
Starting with two Tony Kart gas models, we converted one to electric in 12 hours flat. (We even amazed ourselves.) We used a 25-hp brushed DC (direct current) electric motor and an industrial controller from a golf cart, and then focused on four details that can trip up electric vehicles—torque curves, weight, batteries and cost. Cameras in tow, we headed out to Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, Calif. Race tracks, loud noises and burning rubber: just an average day on a MythBusters shoot.
Adam: I had to create a link between the throttle pedal and the potentiometer, which is a mechanical device that tells the speed controller how much pressure is on the throttle pedal. The speed controller translates that signal to regulate how much amperage is sent to the motor—and that determines how fast the kart will go. Here, we're testing the linkage.
Jamie: Most manufacturers plan on using lithium-ion batteries in future hybrids and electric cars, but some current types can suffer from thermal runaway, or overheating, and catch fire. We avoided this by using lithium-iron-phosphate batteries from Thunder-Sky. They aren't as sensitive to temperature, but they do need to be kept under pressure. This bracket is part of a vice I'm building for the batteries. As they heat up, they can swell and crack the casing if they're not squeezed together. We used 28 batteries with a total of 110 volts. The kart can be charged to 80 percent in an hour and 100 percent overnight.
Adam: I'm using an oxyacetylene torch to cut a motor mount, which has slots—not holes—so that the tension the motor puts on whatever it's driving can be adjusted. You learn this the very first time you don't do it and wreck a motor. Everyone I know has ruined a motor this way.
Starting with two Tony Kart gas models, we converted one to electric in 12 hours flat. (We even amazed ourselves.) We used a 25-hp brushed DC (direct current) electric motor and an industrial controller from a golf cart, and then focused on four details that can trip up electric vehicles—torque curves, weight, batteries and cost. Cameras in tow, we headed out to Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, Calif. Race tracks, loud noises and burning rubber: just an average day on a MythBusters shoot.
Cruise Control
Adam: I had to create a link between the throttle pedal and the potentiometer, which is a mechanical device that tells the speed controller how much pressure is on the throttle pedal. The speed controller translates that signal to regulate how much amperage is sent to the motor—and that determines how fast the kart will go. Here, we're testing the linkage.
Battery 101
Jamie: Most manufacturers plan on using lithium-ion batteries in future hybrids and electric cars, but some current types can suffer from thermal runaway, or overheating, and catch fire. We avoided this by using lithium-iron-phosphate batteries from Thunder-Sky. They aren't as sensitive to temperature, but they do need to be kept under pressure. This bracket is part of a vice I'm building for the batteries. As they heat up, they can swell and crack the casing if they're not squeezed together. We used 28 batteries with a total of 110 volts. The kart can be charged to 80 percent in an hour and 100 percent overnight.
Slot Machine
Adam: I'm using an oxyacetylene torch to cut a motor mount, which has slots—not holes—so that the tension the motor puts on whatever it's driving can be adjusted. You learn this the very first time you don't do it and wreck a motor. Everyone I know has ruined a motor this way.
60. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What model of motor, speed controller, and chassis did you guys use?
59. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
After looking at all the comments below, I am left wondering what the debate 100 years ago sounded like. I imagine there were individuals who argued that internal combustion engines were not able to outperform their horse, either because of speed, range, terrain handing and most likely supporting infrastructure for refueling or repair parts. They would have made the case that there was no future in automobiles. Today, other forms of propulsion are in their relative infancy. Perhaps decades of refinement will be needed until some forms become mainstream. The Wright brothers did not invent the jumbo jet or the stealth fighter. Most reasonable people would agree that it is our collective best interest to develop alternative sources of propulsion to the internal combustion engine. I support the efforts of those who are doing more than just complaining about the current situation, and are trying to create solutions. They might not get it perfect the first time, but they are laying down the foundation to build upon.
58. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
A lot of people seem to think using less batteries would help make the cart faster, but the truth is that the batteries are necessary to produce the high voltage required for the motor controller to work. It uses pulse width modulation(PWM) and needs all that voltage for those quick accelerations. As of now, it seems gas still yields more bang for the buck, but we are definitely going in the right direction.
57. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars have been proven, just have a view of the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car", and you'll see that GM already has the technology to produce a viable electric vehicle. As a nation, we just need some legislators with the cajones to stand up to the oil companies.
56. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
we sould use rc cars as a guide to make electic motor smaller faster and less batters to move it. i think plastic would be the easy way to move the weght of the car
55. Use Dewalt A123 packs for less weight
I agree with #51. If the point of the build is to do a couple of 1 min laps, then the battery load could be significantly reduced. Using 28 batteries to get 110 volt means each of those large cells puts out only 3.9v (if they are all in series) that's about the same as a AA sized 18650 cell that weighs about 70 grams. The DC motor is ONLY 25 hp (about 18kw) so needs about 163 amps peak @110v. The easiest way would be to get 6 Dewalt A123 packs wired 30S-2P to give 108v @ 4.6ah. These cells have a 50C rating so can deliver up to 230amps in bursts but best of all the total battery weight would be only 5.25kg / 11.55lb
54. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I find it interesting how negative so many people are. With gas now over $4 a gallon, why not excercise alternative options. There is so much criticism against electric vehicles. As far as I look at it, it is a step in the right direction. Perhaps the battery technology isn't currently here for the "range" that everyone is looking for, but give it time. I drive about 100 miles a day total. If a fully electric vehicle was affordable, and could provide enough battery life for what I cuurently do, then why not???
53. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The electric cart's performance could probably been inhanced be drilling vent holes in the electric motor's case an adding a cooling fan. this would allow the motor to produce more hp. without overheating. To increase the hp. simply raise the voltage by adding a couple of batteries to the power pack. My guess is that this would give the electric cart greater acceleration and top speed. Just the same, I was impressed with your cart and agree that if more than 12 hours were utilized in it's development and construction, i expect that the electric cart could have outperformed it's gas powered rival. i would like to know more about the motor you used and it's manufacturer.
52. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Let's imagine that we lived in France, where 90% plus of all electricity is generated by Nuclear power (sperate debate). then we charge our batteries at night, when we use only a fraction of the demand we use during the day. Then we add a hydrogen fuel cell. That we could use for extended us and quick fueling. We combine this with the fact that 90% of all trips are less that 50 miles. The end result is 100% green.
51. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I'm interested in how much of the battery capacity was used in the track runs. I'm wondering, if, say only 50% of the capacity was used, if you could reduce the amount of batteries and save weight. Keep in mind the range for this application is fairly fixed. Knowing nothing about cart racing, I would still assert that, counting all of the possible heats, that there is a fixed amount of laps, and the battery pack size could be tuned to the total need.
50. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
You can't forget that the power used to charge those batteries probably came from a fossil-fuel burning plant. Are we really saving the environment? If we use renewable or clean energy power plants, yes. Otherwise, maybe not
49. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The energy crisis of the next 25-30 years will be the fall of man. Let the debating begin; and we are all apparently experts on the subject.
48. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
It has been mentioned here that the refining losses and electric grid transmission and distribution losses are about the same. What about coal extraction, processing, handling and production waste disposal losses? Oil is extracted by drilling wells and pumping the liquid out which is then piped/shipped, refined and the relatively very limited production waste just let out into the atmosphere much more efficiently than in the case of coal, a solid that needs to be mined, mechanically handled (loaded, conveyed/shipped), washed, pulverized the waste fly ash disposed off and finally the land used by spent mines need to be reclaimed. Also the specific energy content (both weight and volume) of oil is much greater (approximately twice by volume) than that of coal, resulting in more inefficiencies and pollution costs for coal by way of processing/handling/waste disposal costs Further, because coal is almost all carbon, the CO2 output per joule of raw energy output (not usable energy) for coal will also be higher than for oil which is a hydrocarbon with a significant hydrogen component. List of major cost factors involved in the pollution audit actors (cost are pollution costs not economic cost): 1. Average quality of the fuel and their respective pollution content 2. The specific energy content of the 2 fuels and the resulting specific (by weight and volume) 3. Distance of source of fuel to the power plants 4. Production costs 5. Handling and Transportation costs 6. Processing costs 7. Power plant efficiencies 8. Waste disposal costs (waste is generated during both production of fuel and power) 9. Transmission and distribution costs 10. Power plant disposal costs 11. Combustion chemistry of the two fuels
47. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The lack of a compact, lightweight electric power source is the bane of many good ideas out there. The exoskeleton armor in the recent Ironman film is more-or-less within the reach of current technology EXCEPT for the power cell in Stark's chest. The electric gocart the 'busters built is eminently practical except for the weight and cost of the batteries. There's some new tech in the pipeline beyond Li-ion that may work but we are just not there yet.
46. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.plumbbobblog.com
The biggest problem I have with electric cars is the grid. While a few individuals can run EVs and pay current prices, a large number of EVs will bring the already-overtaxed electric grid to its knees, and drive the price of electricity through the roof. A fairly simple calculation demonstrates that to replace the energy available in all the gasoline burned for IC engines in the US would require quadruple the amount of electricity we now produce; with electric efficiencies, the actual figure is probably 2 to 3 times our current production, but that's just for autos. Anybody who thinks EVs have an advantage because they use an already-existing delivery system, has not thought through the problem. The grid and power generators for a full-electric fleet would be as much a complete, ground-up construction project as anything envisioned for hydrogen delivery, and probably a great deal more.
45. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Two words: COLD WEATHER. Try racing these puppies during a Montana coldspell. The gas powered would pretty much do what is usually does, the electric would be sluggish and have severely reduced range.
44. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"To the guy who is stating that electric vehicles are dirty, because electricity comes from coal: First, our coal plants are cleaner than the average auto on a per joule of power basis. So you're actually incorrect right off the bat." And of course, the coal is delivered to the plant by coal fairies, rendering old-fashioned coal extraction and its attendant energy coasts and environmental impact moot.
43. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
To the guy who is stating that electric vehicles are dirty, because electricity comes from coal: First, our coal plants are cleaner than the average auto on a per joule of power basis. So you're actually incorrect right off the bat. Secondly, most people I know that had EV1s or now drive Zaps (or any other type of electric vehicle) have installed solar or wind power generators at their house. Some are so far "off the grid" that they are collecting a paycheck from the electric company as their power meter spins in reverse.
42. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
This is a good proof of concept, but clearly there are still many hurdles to overcome for electric vehicles. We need zero pollution electricity to charge these vehicles.
41. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The problem with electric cars is the batties. Batteries cost a lot for 10 amp hour 12 volt battery you can expect to pay $30. To power just a one hp electirc motor you need six of them. Also it take alot time to charge batteis. A IC engine run off hydregon is also as clean as electric. Time to full up your tanks depends on your source. Also the gas tanks are lighter and cheaper than batties.
40. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
To all the greenies out there that think electric cars a so great. Where do you get the electricity from....burning coal mostly. They make lots of pollution, just not in your driveway.
39. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I was just wondering if you are going to publish any plans on how to do the conversion. I was really interested in the motor mount that they discussed using slots.
38. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.painfullback.com/
Yes, the same old issues, weighs more, time to charge batteries and range. We need serious investment into research for batteries, not just the few hundred or thousand a small battery company can do, that just improves current tech
37. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I support the transition to electric go-karts, so we can save our planet so obviously heading toward total destruction. But I will want to order the option package that includes a moonroof and four cupholders.
36. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"Jamie: With electrics, you generate a fraction of the pollution per mile that you do with gas vehicles—without any sacrifice to those of us in a hurry." That really depends on how the electricity you use is generated in the first place isn't it? If it was nuclear power I'd agree. If it was from a coal fired plant I'd be a little skeptical. As for the those of us in a hurry. Well, if I forget to fill the tank the night before I hit a station on the way to work and lose 10-15 minutes. What iff I forgot to charge my car or there was a power outage after a storm?
35. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Great news! Next time in the market for a go-kart, I'll be buying electric and saving the planet.
34. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: www.GreenDrivingTips.com
Another Great job by Jamie and Adam
33. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
A couple of points- first off, the complaint about the top-end speed could be mitigated with a transmission. Secondly, run-time measurements on a full tank of gas vs. a full charge would be worthwhile for comparison, as well as charging data. Thirdly, many different newer technologies than the battery strings being used would be worth discussing- ultracapacitors, molten salt energy storage, nanotech batteries with higher electrode densities, etc. all can significantly impact the value of electric cars. One example would be the ability to quick-charge your battery array- you plug into a special high-amp port, and it pulls 200a at 48v down into your ultracapacitor array in two minutes, and then over the next few hours that charge is trickled into the battery array or used for propulsion directly. Combine this with the ability to use 100% solar/wind/hydroelectric to power your car and you're talking 0 emissions.
32. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
#6: "And where is the post utilization disposal cost? The gas power car I can just drop off at the dump..." Not quite true; even a gas-powered car has a lot of waste that can't just be buried or crushed. Mostly fluids; oil and grease and antifreeze and leftover gasoline. Even the windshield-washer fluid has to be drained out and properly disposed. **** I'm not sure what Jamie means by "top-end acceleration". Does he actually mean "top speed"? **** That's an interesting comment about the noise; in fact I've heard some suggestions that electric cars be fitted with noisemakers, because we're so used to being able to hear cars coming! I know that rear-engine buses are a bit disconcerting, because it's always about thirty feet "in front of" where I think it is.
31. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Interesting comments, but they fall short on complete accuracy. The stated fact (in the article) is that a go cart is 100x more pollutant. No one argues that the electrical grid is clean, but a 2 stroke engine is a larger polluter. Also, you can have the option to plug the electric engine into an environmental friendly source (solar, wind, hybrid, etc.) that are available now and getting cheaper. Also, the energy to build both sources (gas or electric) are in an economical sense a sunk-cost, so it’s the total contribution of pollutants over the life of a vehicle. By-the-way, there are some electric cars from the early 1900s that are still running today, so longevity is not the issue, but how the vehicle is manufactured.
30. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Until we figure out how to charge a battery up in less than 15 minutes electric cars are impractical unless you never drive more than 100 miles per day.
29. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.jaygeiger.com
If you want to see what real electric cars can do check out the king of electric cars http://www.teslamotors.com/. It gets the equivalent of 135mpg, goes 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and gets 220 miles per charge. The only catch is that it costs over $100,000.
28. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
So, the electric kart was 120 lbs. heavier then the gas powered kart and the lap time difference was only 1 second? I'm thinking that the difference would be much greater given a driver that races karts. In kart racing, momentum and corner exit speed is king, not ultimate power. The extra weight of the electric kart would kill it in a typical race.
27. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Wider use of electric vehicle could spawn alternative sources of electricity. Things that, as they are now, are just not cost effective. I'm speaking of localized trickle type sources like solar, wind, water, and sterling engines, over time the high start-up cost will be offset by the essentially clean and (almost) free sources of energy. Not real useful for a long haul trucker, but great for a day's errands in suburbia, espeically since the high costs would likely need to be financed as part of a home or apartment.
26. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What happens to all the old, spent, worn out batteries and their components? Are they recycled? Just curious.
25. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://networdblog.blogspot.com
I'd offer that if you gave the gas powered go-kart the same level of top line technology and best possible engine, it would have out performed the electric one considerably and still probably would have cost less. In other words: you used 21st century top-end technology for the electric car and mid 20th century technology for the gas car and they performed almost the same. Plus: replacing those batteries will be so expensive you probably would be better off buying a new vehicle.
24. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
That's not the whole story, team (and thanks for the work, Mythbusters, love the show) since there was no mention of how long you could run the electric cart before you had to sideline it for an hour. Moreover, in the hands of a serious driver, the handling differences between the two vehicles due to the weight becomes critical and not something that the power of the electric can’t overcome alone. That added weight affects braking, entry and exit speeds on corners, etc. In the hands of a pro the lighter cart would disappear. Finally, the "less than a second apart" line didn't say, but I'd bet that means the gas model won, and just what would a second mean in order of finish? Plenty. That’s not to say that carts couldn’t be a great deal of fun with electric engines, and whole race series couldn’t be built on them. It simply means head to head the electric model can’t get it done in speed, weight or endurance at this point.
23. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Wider use of electric vehicle could spawn alternative sources of electricity. Things that, as they are now, are just not cost effective. I'm speaking of localized trickle type sources like solar, wind, water, and sterling engines, over time the high start-up cost will be offset by the essentially clean and (almost) free sources of energy. Not real useful for a long haul trucker, but great for a day's errands in suburbia, espeically since the high costs would likely need to be financed as part of a home or apartment.
22. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What were the respective costs? I seem to recall that a 25 hp electric motor goes for about $2000, and I know that individual lithium cells are quite spendy. So how about it? How much did the electric cart cost?
21. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"They aren't any more "greener" than an internal combustion engine. When you plug one in to charge it, you're pulling power from the power grid, so you're basically moving the polution source from the vehicle to the power plant." That's the trick, though -- they move the source of pollution to a static site. Getting the same amount of energy from a natural gas plant or highly efficient coal plant is more than a hundred times cleaner burning than a two-stroke engine. Even when you add in the various efficiency issues generated by electrical transmission and battery efficiency, you're still significantly better off than trying to burn in a conventional two-stroke. If you're on a nuclear, solar, wind, or other more clean power source, it's mostly pollutant-free. Mostly, that is. The production of electrical batteries of that particular scale is not overwhelmingly clean, and the relatively short life-span of such batteries (typically three years) means that it's a significant aspect.
20. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I'd like to see them try to create an electrically driven pickup truck that can tow a camper or haul a bed full of firewood. If a freight train can be driven by diesel-electric motors then why not a Ford F350?
19. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Does it take an hour to fill the gas cart's tank to the 4/5ths level? And overnight to top it off? And what are the respective miles per full tank/charge? In certain select roles -- esp. urban driving -- electric has interesting potential. But energy density -- both by weight and by volume -- will make liquid fuels the superior choice for general usage, for the foreseeable future;
18. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Its nice to show folks that electric can be fast but until we can get a better way to store the power I'll bet on hydrocarbons. 2x the weight and I'd bet it was all the batteries. If only we could store the same amount of energy in the weight of the gas in the other cart.
17. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
And where is the post utilization disposal cost? The gas power car I can just drop off at the dump, the batteries need special handling and resultant higher costs.
16. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
#3, power from the power grid is cheaper and cleaner than power you make inside the car. It's the "economy of scale" issue.
15. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
If you do a little research you'll find EVs are "greener" than ICEs by an order of several magnitudes, particularly if they are charged with PV panels or some other alternative energy source. RE: Longevity- The motor in my Toyota RAV4EV is rated for 500K miles, at which point you're supposed to pull the case apart and inspect the bearings. I've driven two of these cars for six years with no "service" whatsoever, other than tires, wiper blades, and wiper fluid.
14. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The comments so far are a surprise. Electric Car Range: Every night you plug in your cell phone and it's ready to go the next day. Well the same applys to your electric car. You're not going to go interstate in an electric car right now but for most of your everyday commuting the range is already there. eMergy: There a far fewer components in an electric car than a gas powered one. No exhaust, radiator, oil sump etc. Your point is valid for hybrids but not for battery electric. Are electric cars greener: To find out look at the energy needed from well to wheel, the gas you buy has been dug-up, transported, refined and transported again befor it goes in your tank. You can power an electric car from solar cells on your roof and it can be pollution free. Even if you generate the electricity from coal the electric car is better, but consider the advantage of making your own 'fuel' for your car rather than paying ever increasing gas prices. I think that covers it.
13. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Re: #3 Even a coal fired power station produces less CO2 than the petrol engine. Hence why many electric cars have equivalent MPG figures quoted. They are typically 100-150 MPG and around 70 g/km of CO2. Moving the polution to the power plant is great because it takes the responsibility away from the individual and puts it back on the Government and Power company.
12. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
@2&3 What you two don't understand is that electric vehicles themselves use less energy to move the vehicle than a traditional gas engine. You also fail to realize that the power comes from clean sources as well. Our current power grid is only 55% coal, which produces less emissions than gasoline when burned. Not to mention that it's not a long-shot to just install solar panels on your roof and charge your car from the sunlight. We have several forms of pollutant friendly/free energy, ranging from the nuclear reactors (which the fuel rods CAN be safely taken care of) to the simple fields of solar panels. Wind power, geothermal and hydroelectric also make up a portion of our power grid. Electric cars are our future, gasoline is running out and renewable energy sources are fast coming into play.
11. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Heh. Comment #3 presumes electricity is the province of only public utilities. Here on the ranch we make our own electricty with Darius rotors and panels. I'd love a workable, usable vehicle I could plug into our ranch grid. And as to eMergy, I note that most of the anti-energy crowd ride titanium framed bicycles, wear polyester fleece in winter, walk on concrete and use more electronic devices and mobile platforms than anyone else. If we take oil out of the equation for mobile energy, and since it's the Earth's core producing a nearly perpetual flow of oil, I'd hazard a guess that making 'things' from petro-chemcials will be safely around for a long time.
10. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Heh. Comment #3 presumes electricity is the province of only public utilities. Here on the ranch we make our own electricty with Darius rotors and panels. I'd love a workable, usable vehicle I could plug into our ranch grid. And as to eMergy, I note that most of the anti-energy crowd ride titanium framed bicycles, wear polyester fleece in winter, walk on concrete and use more electronic devices and mobile platforms than anyone else. If we take oil out of the equation for mobile energy, and since it's the Earth's core producing a nearly perpetual flow of oil, I'd hazard a guess that making 'things' from petro-chemcials will be safely around for a long time.
9. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric Vehicles have been around for a LONG and will be here long after fossil fuels are exhausted. It's only logical that we start perfecting the technology now.
8. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
RE: Comment 3. Point is, the power grid can source electricity from hydro, wind, solar, etc., besides fossil fuel. So it's not exactly a direct correlation.
7. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
1. About the longevity: Just consider that a go-kart pilot 'wanting' to be among the top positions in pro races not rearely has to rectify the motor every single race because of the extreme wear a 15.000 rpm (2 stroke)engine suffers. In comparison we can see many electrical motors in the market that can spin even much higher than that for years without much wear...
6. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars should be quite favourable from a greenhouse gas perspective even when the energy is coming from coal. The argument is that the losses in the refining and distribution of petrol vs. distribution of electricity are roughly comparable. On the other hand the major loss is that the internal combustion engine is about 20% efficient whereas a power station is about 40%. The electric motor is about 90% efficient. So, bottom line is about twice as good for the conversion of energy from coal as from crude oil. It is further argued that the usual practice would be to recharge overnight on off-peak power which adds less to the greenhouse gas output of power stations that are running on regardless.
5. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars should be quite favourable from a greenhouse gas perspective even when the energy is coming from coal. The argument is that the losses in the refining and distribution of petrol vs. distribution of electricity are roughly comparable. On the other hand the major loss is that the internal combustion engine is about 20% efficient whereas a power station is about 40%. The electric motor is about 90% efficient. So, bottom line is about twice as good for the conversion of energy from coal as from crude oil. It is further argued that the usual practice would be to recharge overnight on off-peak power which adds less to the greenhouse gas output of power stations that are running on regardless.
4. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Concerning the comment of electric cars not being greener than petrol or diesel because of power plants there are a few things wrong with that. Power plants are not inherently "un-green". There are sustainable power plants right now, and the power generated by power plants is more efficient at generating energy than things such as engines....
3. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I still don't understand what all the hype is about electric cars. They aren't any more "greener" than an internal combustion engine. When you plug one in to charge it, you're pulling power from the power grid, so you're basically moving the polution source from the vehicle to the power plant. MYTHBUSTERS RULE!!!!
2. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What about eMergy? The amount of oil and pollution used to make the electric components? If the laws of thermodynamics are true then these electric vehicles only use more oil, not less
1. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Only question I have is about longevity. How long can you run the electric at the same consistency? This of course vs. the gas powered. One of the biggest issues hindering the electric cars wide acceptance is its range. In any case, great work on the project.
What model of motor, speed controller, and chassis did you guys use?
59. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
After looking at all the comments below, I am left wondering what the debate 100 years ago sounded like. I imagine there were individuals who argued that internal combustion engines were not able to outperform their horse, either because of speed, range, terrain handing and most likely supporting infrastructure for refueling or repair parts. They would have made the case that there was no future in automobiles. Today, other forms of propulsion are in their relative infancy. Perhaps decades of refinement will be needed until some forms become mainstream. The Wright brothers did not invent the jumbo jet or the stealth fighter. Most reasonable people would agree that it is our collective best interest to develop alternative sources of propulsion to the internal combustion engine. I support the efforts of those who are doing more than just complaining about the current situation, and are trying to create solutions. They might not get it perfect the first time, but they are laying down the foundation to build upon.
58. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
A lot of people seem to think using less batteries would help make the cart faster, but the truth is that the batteries are necessary to produce the high voltage required for the motor controller to work. It uses pulse width modulation(PWM) and needs all that voltage for those quick accelerations. As of now, it seems gas still yields more bang for the buck, but we are definitely going in the right direction.
57. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars have been proven, just have a view of the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car", and you'll see that GM already has the technology to produce a viable electric vehicle. As a nation, we just need some legislators with the cajones to stand up to the oil companies.
56. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
we sould use rc cars as a guide to make electic motor smaller faster and less batters to move it. i think plastic would be the easy way to move the weght of the car
55. Use Dewalt A123 packs for less weight
I agree with #51. If the point of the build is to do a couple of 1 min laps, then the battery load could be significantly reduced. Using 28 batteries to get 110 volt means each of those large cells puts out only 3.9v (if they are all in series) that's about the same as a AA sized 18650 cell that weighs about 70 grams. The DC motor is ONLY 25 hp (about 18kw) so needs about 163 amps peak @110v. The easiest way would be to get 6 Dewalt A123 packs wired 30S-2P to give 108v @ 4.6ah. These cells have a 50C rating so can deliver up to 230amps in bursts but best of all the total battery weight would be only 5.25kg / 11.55lb
54. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I find it interesting how negative so many people are. With gas now over $4 a gallon, why not excercise alternative options. There is so much criticism against electric vehicles. As far as I look at it, it is a step in the right direction. Perhaps the battery technology isn't currently here for the "range" that everyone is looking for, but give it time. I drive about 100 miles a day total. If a fully electric vehicle was affordable, and could provide enough battery life for what I cuurently do, then why not???
53. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The electric cart's performance could probably been inhanced be drilling vent holes in the electric motor's case an adding a cooling fan. this would allow the motor to produce more hp. without overheating. To increase the hp. simply raise the voltage by adding a couple of batteries to the power pack. My guess is that this would give the electric cart greater acceleration and top speed. Just the same, I was impressed with your cart and agree that if more than 12 hours were utilized in it's development and construction, i expect that the electric cart could have outperformed it's gas powered rival. i would like to know more about the motor you used and it's manufacturer.
52. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Let's imagine that we lived in France, where 90% plus of all electricity is generated by Nuclear power (sperate debate). then we charge our batteries at night, when we use only a fraction of the demand we use during the day. Then we add a hydrogen fuel cell. That we could use for extended us and quick fueling. We combine this with the fact that 90% of all trips are less that 50 miles. The end result is 100% green.
51. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I'm interested in how much of the battery capacity was used in the track runs. I'm wondering, if, say only 50% of the capacity was used, if you could reduce the amount of batteries and save weight. Keep in mind the range for this application is fairly fixed. Knowing nothing about cart racing, I would still assert that, counting all of the possible heats, that there is a fixed amount of laps, and the battery pack size could be tuned to the total need.
50. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
You can't forget that the power used to charge those batteries probably came from a fossil-fuel burning plant. Are we really saving the environment? If we use renewable or clean energy power plants, yes. Otherwise, maybe not
49. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The energy crisis of the next 25-30 years will be the fall of man. Let the debating begin; and we are all apparently experts on the subject.
48. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
It has been mentioned here that the refining losses and electric grid transmission and distribution losses are about the same. What about coal extraction, processing, handling and production waste disposal losses? Oil is extracted by drilling wells and pumping the liquid out which is then piped/shipped, refined and the relatively very limited production waste just let out into the atmosphere much more efficiently than in the case of coal, a solid that needs to be mined, mechanically handled (loaded, conveyed/shipped), washed, pulverized the waste fly ash disposed off and finally the land used by spent mines need to be reclaimed. Also the specific energy content (both weight and volume) of oil is much greater (approximately twice by volume) than that of coal, resulting in more inefficiencies and pollution costs for coal by way of processing/handling/waste disposal costs Further, because coal is almost all carbon, the CO2 output per joule of raw energy output (not usable energy) for coal will also be higher than for oil which is a hydrocarbon with a significant hydrogen component. List of major cost factors involved in the pollution audit actors (cost are pollution costs not economic cost): 1. Average quality of the fuel and their respective pollution content 2. The specific energy content of the 2 fuels and the resulting specific (by weight and volume) 3. Distance of source of fuel to the power plants 4. Production costs 5. Handling and Transportation costs 6. Processing costs 7. Power plant efficiencies 8. Waste disposal costs (waste is generated during both production of fuel and power) 9. Transmission and distribution costs 10. Power plant disposal costs 11. Combustion chemistry of the two fuels
47. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The lack of a compact, lightweight electric power source is the bane of many good ideas out there. The exoskeleton armor in the recent Ironman film is more-or-less within the reach of current technology EXCEPT for the power cell in Stark's chest. The electric gocart the 'busters built is eminently practical except for the weight and cost of the batteries. There's some new tech in the pipeline beyond Li-ion that may work but we are just not there yet.
46. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.plumbbobblog.com
The biggest problem I have with electric cars is the grid. While a few individuals can run EVs and pay current prices, a large number of EVs will bring the already-overtaxed electric grid to its knees, and drive the price of electricity through the roof. A fairly simple calculation demonstrates that to replace the energy available in all the gasoline burned for IC engines in the US would require quadruple the amount of electricity we now produce; with electric efficiencies, the actual figure is probably 2 to 3 times our current production, but that's just for autos. Anybody who thinks EVs have an advantage because they use an already-existing delivery system, has not thought through the problem. The grid and power generators for a full-electric fleet would be as much a complete, ground-up construction project as anything envisioned for hydrogen delivery, and probably a great deal more.
45. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Two words: COLD WEATHER. Try racing these puppies during a Montana coldspell. The gas powered would pretty much do what is usually does, the electric would be sluggish and have severely reduced range.
44. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"To the guy who is stating that electric vehicles are dirty, because electricity comes from coal: First, our coal plants are cleaner than the average auto on a per joule of power basis. So you're actually incorrect right off the bat." And of course, the coal is delivered to the plant by coal fairies, rendering old-fashioned coal extraction and its attendant energy coasts and environmental impact moot.
43. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
To the guy who is stating that electric vehicles are dirty, because electricity comes from coal: First, our coal plants are cleaner than the average auto on a per joule of power basis. So you're actually incorrect right off the bat. Secondly, most people I know that had EV1s or now drive Zaps (or any other type of electric vehicle) have installed solar or wind power generators at their house. Some are so far "off the grid" that they are collecting a paycheck from the electric company as their power meter spins in reverse.
42. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
This is a good proof of concept, but clearly there are still many hurdles to overcome for electric vehicles. We need zero pollution electricity to charge these vehicles.
41. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The problem with electric cars is the batties. Batteries cost a lot for 10 amp hour 12 volt battery you can expect to pay $30. To power just a one hp electirc motor you need six of them. Also it take alot time to charge batteis. A IC engine run off hydregon is also as clean as electric. Time to full up your tanks depends on your source. Also the gas tanks are lighter and cheaper than batties.
40. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
To all the greenies out there that think electric cars a so great. Where do you get the electricity from....burning coal mostly. They make lots of pollution, just not in your driveway.
39. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I was just wondering if you are going to publish any plans on how to do the conversion. I was really interested in the motor mount that they discussed using slots.
38. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.painfullback.com/
Yes, the same old issues, weighs more, time to charge batteries and range. We need serious investment into research for batteries, not just the few hundred or thousand a small battery company can do, that just improves current tech
37. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I support the transition to electric go-karts, so we can save our planet so obviously heading toward total destruction. But I will want to order the option package that includes a moonroof and four cupholders.
36. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"Jamie: With electrics, you generate a fraction of the pollution per mile that you do with gas vehicles—without any sacrifice to those of us in a hurry." That really depends on how the electricity you use is generated in the first place isn't it? If it was nuclear power I'd agree. If it was from a coal fired plant I'd be a little skeptical. As for the those of us in a hurry. Well, if I forget to fill the tank the night before I hit a station on the way to work and lose 10-15 minutes. What iff I forgot to charge my car or there was a power outage after a storm?
35. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Great news! Next time in the market for a go-kart, I'll be buying electric and saving the planet.
34. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: www.GreenDrivingTips.com
Another Great job by Jamie and Adam
33. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
A couple of points- first off, the complaint about the top-end speed could be mitigated with a transmission. Secondly, run-time measurements on a full tank of gas vs. a full charge would be worthwhile for comparison, as well as charging data. Thirdly, many different newer technologies than the battery strings being used would be worth discussing- ultracapacitors, molten salt energy storage, nanotech batteries with higher electrode densities, etc. all can significantly impact the value of electric cars. One example would be the ability to quick-charge your battery array- you plug into a special high-amp port, and it pulls 200a at 48v down into your ultracapacitor array in two minutes, and then over the next few hours that charge is trickled into the battery array or used for propulsion directly. Combine this with the ability to use 100% solar/wind/hydroelectric to power your car and you're talking 0 emissions.
32. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
#6: "And where is the post utilization disposal cost? The gas power car I can just drop off at the dump..." Not quite true; even a gas-powered car has a lot of waste that can't just be buried or crushed. Mostly fluids; oil and grease and antifreeze and leftover gasoline. Even the windshield-washer fluid has to be drained out and properly disposed. **** I'm not sure what Jamie means by "top-end acceleration". Does he actually mean "top speed"? **** That's an interesting comment about the noise; in fact I've heard some suggestions that electric cars be fitted with noisemakers, because we're so used to being able to hear cars coming! I know that rear-engine buses are a bit disconcerting, because it's always about thirty feet "in front of" where I think it is.
31. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Interesting comments, but they fall short on complete accuracy. The stated fact (in the article) is that a go cart is 100x more pollutant. No one argues that the electrical grid is clean, but a 2 stroke engine is a larger polluter. Also, you can have the option to plug the electric engine into an environmental friendly source (solar, wind, hybrid, etc.) that are available now and getting cheaper. Also, the energy to build both sources (gas or electric) are in an economical sense a sunk-cost, so it’s the total contribution of pollutants over the life of a vehicle. By-the-way, there are some electric cars from the early 1900s that are still running today, so longevity is not the issue, but how the vehicle is manufactured.
30. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Until we figure out how to charge a battery up in less than 15 minutes electric cars are impractical unless you never drive more than 100 miles per day.
29. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://www.jaygeiger.com
If you want to see what real electric cars can do check out the king of electric cars http://www.teslamotors.com/. It gets the equivalent of 135mpg, goes 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and gets 220 miles per charge. The only catch is that it costs over $100,000.
28. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
So, the electric kart was 120 lbs. heavier then the gas powered kart and the lap time difference was only 1 second? I'm thinking that the difference would be much greater given a driver that races karts. In kart racing, momentum and corner exit speed is king, not ultimate power. The extra weight of the electric kart would kill it in a typical race.
27. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Wider use of electric vehicle could spawn alternative sources of electricity. Things that, as they are now, are just not cost effective. I'm speaking of localized trickle type sources like solar, wind, water, and sterling engines, over time the high start-up cost will be offset by the essentially clean and (almost) free sources of energy. Not real useful for a long haul trucker, but great for a day's errands in suburbia, espeically since the high costs would likely need to be financed as part of a home or apartment.
26. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What happens to all the old, spent, worn out batteries and their components? Are they recycled? Just curious.
25. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Website: http://networdblog.blogspot.com
I'd offer that if you gave the gas powered go-kart the same level of top line technology and best possible engine, it would have out performed the electric one considerably and still probably would have cost less. In other words: you used 21st century top-end technology for the electric car and mid 20th century technology for the gas car and they performed almost the same. Plus: replacing those batteries will be so expensive you probably would be better off buying a new vehicle.
24. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
That's not the whole story, team (and thanks for the work, Mythbusters, love the show) since there was no mention of how long you could run the electric cart before you had to sideline it for an hour. Moreover, in the hands of a serious driver, the handling differences between the two vehicles due to the weight becomes critical and not something that the power of the electric can’t overcome alone. That added weight affects braking, entry and exit speeds on corners, etc. In the hands of a pro the lighter cart would disappear. Finally, the "less than a second apart" line didn't say, but I'd bet that means the gas model won, and just what would a second mean in order of finish? Plenty. That’s not to say that carts couldn’t be a great deal of fun with electric engines, and whole race series couldn’t be built on them. It simply means head to head the electric model can’t get it done in speed, weight or endurance at this point.
23. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Wider use of electric vehicle could spawn alternative sources of electricity. Things that, as they are now, are just not cost effective. I'm speaking of localized trickle type sources like solar, wind, water, and sterling engines, over time the high start-up cost will be offset by the essentially clean and (almost) free sources of energy. Not real useful for a long haul trucker, but great for a day's errands in suburbia, espeically since the high costs would likely need to be financed as part of a home or apartment.
22. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What were the respective costs? I seem to recall that a 25 hp electric motor goes for about $2000, and I know that individual lithium cells are quite spendy. So how about it? How much did the electric cart cost?
21. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
"They aren't any more "greener" than an internal combustion engine. When you plug one in to charge it, you're pulling power from the power grid, so you're basically moving the polution source from the vehicle to the power plant." That's the trick, though -- they move the source of pollution to a static site. Getting the same amount of energy from a natural gas plant or highly efficient coal plant is more than a hundred times cleaner burning than a two-stroke engine. Even when you add in the various efficiency issues generated by electrical transmission and battery efficiency, you're still significantly better off than trying to burn in a conventional two-stroke. If you're on a nuclear, solar, wind, or other more clean power source, it's mostly pollutant-free. Mostly, that is. The production of electrical batteries of that particular scale is not overwhelmingly clean, and the relatively short life-span of such batteries (typically three years) means that it's a significant aspect.
20. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I'd like to see them try to create an electrically driven pickup truck that can tow a camper or haul a bed full of firewood. If a freight train can be driven by diesel-electric motors then why not a Ford F350?
19. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Does it take an hour to fill the gas cart's tank to the 4/5ths level? And overnight to top it off? And what are the respective miles per full tank/charge? In certain select roles -- esp. urban driving -- electric has interesting potential. But energy density -- both by weight and by volume -- will make liquid fuels the superior choice for general usage, for the foreseeable future;
18. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Its nice to show folks that electric can be fast but until we can get a better way to store the power I'll bet on hydrocarbons. 2x the weight and I'd bet it was all the batteries. If only we could store the same amount of energy in the weight of the gas in the other cart.
17. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
And where is the post utilization disposal cost? The gas power car I can just drop off at the dump, the batteries need special handling and resultant higher costs.
16. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
#3, power from the power grid is cheaper and cleaner than power you make inside the car. It's the "economy of scale" issue.
15. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
If you do a little research you'll find EVs are "greener" than ICEs by an order of several magnitudes, particularly if they are charged with PV panels or some other alternative energy source. RE: Longevity- The motor in my Toyota RAV4EV is rated for 500K miles, at which point you're supposed to pull the case apart and inspect the bearings. I've driven two of these cars for six years with no "service" whatsoever, other than tires, wiper blades, and wiper fluid.
14. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
The comments so far are a surprise. Electric Car Range: Every night you plug in your cell phone and it's ready to go the next day. Well the same applys to your electric car. You're not going to go interstate in an electric car right now but for most of your everyday commuting the range is already there. eMergy: There a far fewer components in an electric car than a gas powered one. No exhaust, radiator, oil sump etc. Your point is valid for hybrids but not for battery electric. Are electric cars greener: To find out look at the energy needed from well to wheel, the gas you buy has been dug-up, transported, refined and transported again befor it goes in your tank. You can power an electric car from solar cells on your roof and it can be pollution free. Even if you generate the electricity from coal the electric car is better, but consider the advantage of making your own 'fuel' for your car rather than paying ever increasing gas prices. I think that covers it.
13. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Re: #3 Even a coal fired power station produces less CO2 than the petrol engine. Hence why many electric cars have equivalent MPG figures quoted. They are typically 100-150 MPG and around 70 g/km of CO2. Moving the polution to the power plant is great because it takes the responsibility away from the individual and puts it back on the Government and Power company.
12. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
@2&3 What you two don't understand is that electric vehicles themselves use less energy to move the vehicle than a traditional gas engine. You also fail to realize that the power comes from clean sources as well. Our current power grid is only 55% coal, which produces less emissions than gasoline when burned. Not to mention that it's not a long-shot to just install solar panels on your roof and charge your car from the sunlight. We have several forms of pollutant friendly/free energy, ranging from the nuclear reactors (which the fuel rods CAN be safely taken care of) to the simple fields of solar panels. Wind power, geothermal and hydroelectric also make up a portion of our power grid. Electric cars are our future, gasoline is running out and renewable energy sources are fast coming into play.
11. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Heh. Comment #3 presumes electricity is the province of only public utilities. Here on the ranch we make our own electricty with Darius rotors and panels. I'd love a workable, usable vehicle I could plug into our ranch grid. And as to eMergy, I note that most of the anti-energy crowd ride titanium framed bicycles, wear polyester fleece in winter, walk on concrete and use more electronic devices and mobile platforms than anyone else. If we take oil out of the equation for mobile energy, and since it's the Earth's core producing a nearly perpetual flow of oil, I'd hazard a guess that making 'things' from petro-chemcials will be safely around for a long time.
10. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Heh. Comment #3 presumes electricity is the province of only public utilities. Here on the ranch we make our own electricty with Darius rotors and panels. I'd love a workable, usable vehicle I could plug into our ranch grid. And as to eMergy, I note that most of the anti-energy crowd ride titanium framed bicycles, wear polyester fleece in winter, walk on concrete and use more electronic devices and mobile platforms than anyone else. If we take oil out of the equation for mobile energy, and since it's the Earth's core producing a nearly perpetual flow of oil, I'd hazard a guess that making 'things' from petro-chemcials will be safely around for a long time.
9. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric Vehicles have been around for a LONG and will be here long after fossil fuels are exhausted. It's only logical that we start perfecting the technology now.
8. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
RE: Comment 3. Point is, the power grid can source electricity from hydro, wind, solar, etc., besides fossil fuel. So it's not exactly a direct correlation.
7. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
1. About the longevity: Just consider that a go-kart pilot 'wanting' to be among the top positions in pro races not rearely has to rectify the motor every single race because of the extreme wear a 15.000 rpm (2 stroke)engine suffers. In comparison we can see many electrical motors in the market that can spin even much higher than that for years without much wear...
6. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars should be quite favourable from a greenhouse gas perspective even when the energy is coming from coal. The argument is that the losses in the refining and distribution of petrol vs. distribution of electricity are roughly comparable. On the other hand the major loss is that the internal combustion engine is about 20% efficient whereas a power station is about 40%. The electric motor is about 90% efficient. So, bottom line is about twice as good for the conversion of energy from coal as from crude oil. It is further argued that the usual practice would be to recharge overnight on off-peak power which adds less to the greenhouse gas output of power stations that are running on regardless.
5. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Electric cars should be quite favourable from a greenhouse gas perspective even when the energy is coming from coal. The argument is that the losses in the refining and distribution of petrol vs. distribution of electricity are roughly comparable. On the other hand the major loss is that the internal combustion engine is about 20% efficient whereas a power station is about 40%. The electric motor is about 90% efficient. So, bottom line is about twice as good for the conversion of energy from coal as from crude oil. It is further argued that the usual practice would be to recharge overnight on off-peak power which adds less to the greenhouse gas output of power stations that are running on regardless.
4. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Concerning the comment of electric cars not being greener than petrol or diesel because of power plants there are a few things wrong with that. Power plants are not inherently "un-green". There are sustainable power plants right now, and the power generated by power plants is more efficient at generating energy than things such as engines....
3. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
I still don't understand what all the hype is about electric cars. They aren't any more "greener" than an internal combustion engine. When you plug one in to charge it, you're pulling power from the power grid, so you're basically moving the polution source from the vehicle to the power plant. MYTHBUSTERS RULE!!!!
2. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
What about eMergy? The amount of oil and pollution used to make the electric components? If the laws of thermodynamics are true then these electric vehicles only use more oil, not less
1. RE: MythBusters Hack Go-Kart in Extreme Electric vs. Gas Test
Only question I have is about longevity. How long can you run the electric at the same consistency? This of course vs. the gas powered. One of the biggest issues hindering the electric cars wide acceptance is its range. In any case, great work on the project.
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